I received the following note from my other brother Derrell. If interested, you may contact him at: onagerla@yahoo.com
The conclusion of his series on building C&S refrigerator cars will be posting soon.
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In the interest of community (this Blog), a couple of things I'd like to offer and request. As you can imagine I have a box full of SN3 surplus parts (not O scale, not HO scale - 3/16ths) that fit modern C&S cars (including PBL, OMI, Berlyn, and a few TSM kits) but not Circa 1910 cars. Reefer ladders for instance. And keep in mind I build all my cars to 1910 so I may have parts for any of the cars. No promises but if you need something drop me a note. If you have kits that are missing instruction sheets I may have what you need as well. I have some decals sets too - but not a lot.
I'm not looking for money. I'd rather do some horse tradin'. It is more fun and far less formal. Now if you don't have anything to trade I'm not going to be a stickler - you can proabably talk me out of what you need (if I have it) for little of nohing. I have a bunch of code 110 Sn3 wheel sets (Grandtline, PBL, TSM), TSM C&S style metal trucks, a few 3'7" Tomalco truck kits - sell or trading.
On the other hand I am about to offer on Ebay a total of 7 Cimarron Works Tiffany reefers of both 26' and 27' varieties in Sn3. These will include everything but the trucks. One of the 27' cars is an early run with sides and ends that you will need to build up. Typically these would sell for 39.95 retail - If you are interested make me an offer.
I'm looking for at least one more OMI Reefer kit, Reefer CDS dry transfers for any of the C&S cars but especially the reefer Block style lettering (again keep in mind I model 1910 and the Block style came along in June of 1906 - the Circular Tradmark in 1925...).
I'm also looking for (of all things) the old Clear Plastic lift-off lid Tomalco Sn3 kit boxes if any of you have a bunch you are willing to let go of. Or anything generally C&S (another Cimarron Works Spring Beam bridge for instance?) structure kits etc.?
Let's have fun.
Thanks, Derrell Poole
Hamilton, MT
Derrell,
ReplyDeleteIs there any reason you seem to have a preference for the OMI reefers over the PBL incarnation. Easier to backdate? Another reason?
Best,
Todd Ferguson
Harrisburg, NC
No. I just came by a bunch of 'em. I do like a couple of the parts that Grandt Line did in Delrin rather than Styrene. I asked Jimmy if PBL was planning to make these parts in Delrin rather than Styrene and as I recall the answer was they didn't have plans to do that.
ReplyDeleteThe PBL kit is a fine kit. I've built them. You can pretty much interchange their parts and you could use PBL's to do the same thing I did with the OMIs.
Derrell
Brother Derrell, you are generous to make such an offering! I am tempted to take you up on one of the short refers, though I really have no use for it.
ReplyDeleteI too have a bunch of white metal wheel sets if folks want 'em. I trade mine own out for PBL or Cimarron. I have a bunch of the plastic wheelsets, which I want to figure out how to add realistic ends to in order to help scenic some shop areas.
I try to keep the instruction sheets as well, though I have no idea why. And, I have a stock of the surplus decals, though I tend to raid the leftovers for my own use, so sorry, no sharing there.
I am a bit curious regarding why you are abuilding the whole lot of refers? (Because they were there?) Dr. Sloan years ago published one of the more scholarly articles in the Gazette, the purpose of which demonstrated the car to locomotive ratio on the C&S versus D&RG. The contrast between the two roads being that the former had relatively modern steel-underframe cars and small, old locos (yielding a lower ratio), while the latter had old wood cars and large, modern power (making for a larger ratio or longer trains, duh!). More difficult to account for is the number of miles (and shippers) each road served. My takeaway was the proportion of each type of car the railroad had.
For example, the C&S roster I consulted indicated about two boxcars for each gon (perhaps reflecting the need to transport Leadville and Climax concentrates under lock and cover versus much less coal and limestone traffic), 53% and 35% of the roster respectively. There were 30 gons, or 3% and 20 flats or 1%. (In contrast the evil empire had twice as many gons as boxcars, reflecting the unit trains of coal and limestone hauled from Crested Butte and Monarch for CF&I).
I model in 1939, and if my C&S roster of 40 cars was proportional to the above, this would require 21 boxcars, 14 gons, 1 refer, 1 flat and 3 stock cars. I leave it to you to consult a roster and figure out the number of each phase of car. This does not include tank cars, passenger or non-revenue. Of course models come up that I cannot refuse, and it is tough to model a stock rush with only three cars. This logic provides some basis for realistic consist mixes on my own layout. And, don't forget that coal was shipped in stock cars during the off season.
Railroad modeling is FUN!
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
Lol. Okay Brother Keith. All that logic is pretty immaterial unless you are modeling a small freelance road.
ReplyDeleteLet me explain.
Lets say I model Breckenridge - or better yet lets say Brother D models Dickey. Ar-humph! Both locations are on the mainline. Now what would you expect to see on a common carrier mainline...?
EVERYTHING!
If you model the “evil empire” there was a much more pronounce “assigned” distribution of equipment. The Narrow Gauge system was much larger than the C&Sng. And most D&RGW modelers model the ‘30s onward when that kind of distribution was very apparent. The C&S did a certain amount of assigned distribution but it appears it was quite flexible. Engines were assigned more to helper stations rather than semi permanent division roster. Yet even on the Rio Grande cars went everywhere.
If none of the cars had Heralds and numbers on them you could get away with a proportioned roster as suggested by Dr. Sloan or even your own tally. But since they do have numbers and Heralds on them you have to reason; today the westbound train has two reefers headed to Leadville and the east bound has 1 reefer headed to Denver. The 3 cars are 505, 511 and 508. Tomorrow the west bound will have 1 reefer (519) and the east bound will send 505 home. Then next Thursday the west bound will have one reefer (513) and the east bound will have two (511 and 519). On Sunday the wb will send up 2 cars 500 and 508 ....
Notice that trains usually had at least one reefer and sometimes two. The rest of the cars are boxcars and coal. They too are a scrambled bunch of numbers made up from a pool of available cars at any given time. You may or may not notice if the same box car appears in a train 14 or so cars many times but unlike box cars and coals you will likely notice an eye-catcher like a refrigerator. All of us would see the yellow ones first – and we’d remember the numbers if the same one appeared over and over.
Even on a small display layout like Darel's it is ultimately desirable to model all of the possibilities... which is ALLLL of them. Same goes for Locomotives, Cabooses, MOWs and Passenger cars.
Besides... there were only 30 reefers in the teens - so why not?
Contact me privately about the Tiffany kit if you want one.
Thanks Keith.
Derrell
Lets say I model Breckenridge - or better yet lets say Brother D models Dickey. Ar-humph. Both locations are on the mainline. Now what would you expect to see on a common carrier mainline...
EVERYTHING!
See what i mean? If none of the cars had Heralds and numbers on them you could get away with a proportioned roster. But since they do have numbers and Heralds on them you have to reason; today the west bound train has two REeefers headed to Leadville and the east bound has 1 reefer headed to Denver. The 3 cars are 505, 511 and 508. Tomorrow the west bound will have 1 reefer (519) and the east bound will send 505 home. Then next thursday the west bound will have one reefer (513) and the east bound will have 511. On sunday the wb will send up 2 cars 500 and 508 ....
Notice that in the trains there is usually at least one Reefer and sometimes two. The rest of the cars are box cars and coal. They too are a scrambled bunch of numbers made up from a poole of available cars at any given time. The trains are roughly 14 cars long but rarely are they ever the same exact cars.
Even on a small display layout like Darel's it is ultimately desirable to model as many cars as may appear at Dickey at any givben time... which is ALLLL of them. Same goes for Locmotives Cabooses MOWs and Passenger cars.
The one little caviat about reefers is that they stand out in a train. You may or may not notice if the same box car appears in a train many times but you will likey notice an eye-catcher like a refrigerator.
Besides... there are only 30 of them in the teens - so why not reach for an attainable goal?
Contact me privately about the Tiffany kit if you want one.
Thanks Keith.
Derrell
This may be a little off topic but I thought I would ask here anyway. I am wondering how the quality and prototype accuracy of the San Juan On3 and Berlyn Sn3 type 2 C&S cars are rated by those with much more expertise than I have at this point. I recall hearing that the Berlyn cars were somewhat oversize, but they seem to build up into fairly nice cars.
ReplyDeleteBest,
Todd Ferguson
Harrisburg, NC
I don't really know about the San Juan cars. When John Parker first made them back in the early 1990s he sent me sample (he used my C&S Connection Drawings as part of his resourses for design) and I was a little disappointed that they were distinctly clunky when compared to the Grandt Line On3 cars. But that was because he short cut the details. Dimensionally they seemed okay.
ReplyDeleteThe only Berlyn car out of size is the Stock car. It is noticeably larger than the typical Type II car. Nice model for freelance but to correct it you need to bash it with a PBL type III - a lot of work. I have one car that I've corrected and 4 more that will need the same.