Sunday, December 21, 2014

Part 3 - C&S Stock Cars | 11 Comments - Click Here :

    Derrell Poole - Don't let the caption on the title photo throw you - I'm still talking about original build cars.

    One lot of 20 stock cars was built in November and December of 1907. They were numbered 7065 to 7084. Like other Type II cars they used Bettendorf cast trucks and body bolsters. The cost of these cars was 700.00 each.

    According to certain records another lot of 3 Stock cars was also built in November. These were specifically to replace 3 of 5 AC&F Type cars (numbered 7015 to 7064) that had been destroyed as of April that year. The cost of the replacements was only 650.00 each. Since they still owed money to the Trust under which the C&S had purchased these 1900 vintage cars they were  obliged to maintain the lot. The AC&F numbers to be replaced were 7016, 7046 and 7058; the new cars carried the old numbers but they were indeed Type II cars.

    But other records suggest that we don't know the full story. In fact, this does not seem to be the first time the Railroad replaced a missing AC&F car. Numbers 7054 and 7015 had been destroyed in 1904 and 05 respectively. Their values of 634.37 each had been recorded on January 1, 1906 in an Equipment Renewal Analysis. Both cars seem to have been replaced prior to the fall of 1907 but there is no actual record of this. The Official Railway Equipment Register reflected the losses between 1904 and 05 but then regained the count only to exclude the replacements to be built in late 1907. As of September the net balance of the 7015 series stood at 47 cars.

    What seems in-congruent is that 7015 along with the 3 replacements cars built as Type IIs were grouped with the 7065 series in a document titled "Unit Record of Property Changes - Equipment". This strongly suggests that 7015 was, in fact, a Type II car. The URPC-E appears to date from the late teens when the ICC was developing its Valuation Reports. Was 7015 perhaps the very first Type II car built? The records suggest a practice to first built a single car of any new design before the shops got down to the business of out shopping an entire series; sort of a sample car, perhaps to address any shortcomings. But this doesn't seem plausible once we realize the particular circumstances of 1906 and 07. The Type I Boxcars were about to be built in early 1906 when a massive fire destroyed a substantial part of the facilities in February. In fact, the building of the Type I Boxcars was delayed until just shortly before the first run Type II cars were built. This is not to say that one Stock car of the Type II design could not have been built before the Type I Boxcars but even the ORER does not support this.

    It could very well be that 7054 had already been built prior to the fire. It could have been built to a unique Type I frame but more likely it was simply a reconstruction of the AC&F design (the two designs were nearly identical anyway). Interestingly 7054 was not listed anywhere in the URPC-E.

    Thus it seems, despite 1907 records, there were actually 4 Type II cars that replaced AC&F numbers. Incidentally there isn't any clue as to why the replacement cars were 50.00 cheaper than the new cars.

    Under AFE 603 fifty Type III SUF Stock cars were built in 1910. They were numbered 7085 to 7134. All 50 cars were apparently turned out in August at a cost of 700.00 each.

    In Figure 17 we see the roof variations of a Type II and a pair of Type III models. The Type II cars were equipped with wood roofs but the Type III cars used the outside Murphy roofs  like the Type II and III Boxcars. Since 7065 is nearly 3 years older than the SUF cars I've tried to weather its roof to support that vintage. The running boards on the SUF cars also vary from each other and sets up a bit of variety in a train. Wood roof walks were typically not painted.

    The Type II car in Figure 17 represents a car that has been in use for nearly 3 years. Its paint is faded and the car displays plenty of road grime but it is still in good shape. On the other hand 7085 is spanking new - again to validate the vintage of late 1910.

    The model of 7065 was built several years ago from a Berlyn Kit. As it stands, the stock Berlyn kit is grossly over-sized. To build the model correctly I bashed it with PBL Type III parts. As I recall I milled off the end sills and sheathing and replaced them on the PBL end pieces. I simply glued an additional strip of plastic along the bottom edges of the new sides pieces. These modifications were necessary since the sills of the 1910 cars were 7" deep as opposed to the 1907 cars that had 9" sills.

    Since building 7065 I've acquired additional Type II box car ends from Paul Vaughn who now owns the Berlyn C&S kits. I have 4 more kits to build and the Boxcar ends should reduce some of the work that the PBL parts require. But you will still need the side pieces.

    Cars 7085 and 7089 were built from PBL kits. I had obtained these for parts to correct the Type II kits. But I when I ordered additional parts from PBL I decided to go ahead and built the Type III cars. These are the only SUF Stock cars I intend to run on my layout.

    You should also purchase the PBL spurs with the door parts because the Berlyn doors are unusable. You will notice that the doors on both Types are different from those of later periods. As much as I've looked, doors seem to have changes along with everything else in the late teens. I milled a jig out of aluminum to lay out the door slats for this configuration and then glued them into the commercial door frames.

    In figure 21 you will notice that the various details of lettering are located on the side sills of 7065 while they are located on the lowest slat of the siding in figure 22. It isn't too hard to understand this reasoning on cars with 7" side sills. The side brace castings are brass etchings simply glued into place since these are different from the braces on the Type III Stock cars (compare Figures 17 and 17).

    Compare the Type II side sills in Figure 21 to the location of the same lettering on the SUF cars. Once again dates in both cases validate the vintage I am modeling.

    All Type II stock cars were built in 1907 and therefore have only the 1907 cast Striker. But if you look closely you will see that there are a couple of errors on 7065. I failed to include the draft gear data on this end of the car because at the time I was not sure that this appeared on both ends. The same mistake occurred on the SUF cars where only one end has the markings. This was also due to a shortage of the correct decals necessary to do both ends. Another error was the lack of the Retainer Valve descriptor that should be located below the diagram and left of the brake staff on the SUF cars. If you look closely at the end of 7065 in figure 16 you will see this descriptor in the right location. Another error is that the airline goes thru the end sill. This is a feature of the AC&F cars but not the later builds.

    One of the big questions about Stock cars is that of double decks. So far there is never mention in the records of multiple decks during original construction of any C&Sng stock car. I believe additional decks were installed much later. In the URPC-E removable double decks were installed in some of the Type III cars during April and May of 1928. My research has turned up records of the late '30s that indicate some AC&F and Type II cars had also been equipped with double decks. A clue I have not looked into would be the Stock pens and loading chutes and when they started to appear.

Derrell Poole
Hamilton MT.
11 Comments - Click Here :
  1. Ummm... all I can say is that d's proof reader is Derrell. What a bozo! I'd fire him but it seems he has a lifetime contract with me....


  2. For years I've heard about how inaccurate the Berlyn stock car kits were but didn't know why. Thanks for explaining to us why and how to make correct models Derrell.

  3. Derrell, what casting do you use for the queen posts on the ends of the cars? Are these a custom piece, or something commercially available? Was the prototype a 'Master Car Builder' part?

    Keith Hayes
    Leadville in Sn3

  4. Hi Keith. The end truss (queen posts) are built in place. On the door end I drill a hole into the base of the door guide and then install a long stem from an HO scale queen post casting (Grandt Line). On the B end I install a GL queen post trim off the stem and the do the same as to the Door Guide. No castings are available.

    These probably were MCB casings but I've never looked them up. They first appeared on C&S cars in the 1898 (Trinidad build) of the 7722 series box cars so you may look in the appropriate volume of the MCB.

    Thanks for asking...

  5. Keith,

    I posted a picture of the car end queen posts to the discussion forum. Not sure where I got the picture (probably from Derrell).


  6. Darrell - you live in Hamilton, Montana ?!? I half grew up in Hamilton - I spent my summers out in Hamilton from 2 years old to 18 - with my Great Aunt Laura Jones, who lived at 603 S. 5th Street - my dad toyed with holding on to the place after she passed on - but sadly, decided ultimately not to ...

  7. John,

    That's just a few blocks away. I'm sure in those days the RM Lab was much smaller and 5th St. was a dirt road (1960s?) and sawmills were going strong. Today there are no Sawmills - thank you EPA!! and the joke is "Bitterroot Valley - poverty with a view". Great place to live anyway.

  8. Yes Darrell, Fifth was a dirt road back in the day – but – at each intersection the concrete sidewalks continued right across the street, squaring off the intersections – my Aunt Laura and my mom knew Willie Burgdorfer of the Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever Lab quite well and yes I remember his facility being quite small – I do remember a large lumber mill slash burner cone near town – and another at or near Lake Como – my Aunt Laura’s place was two (Victorian) bunkhouses spliced together – I slept out on the rear porch under a pile of down quilts – one morning I was awakened by Blackfeet at the porch door looking for my Great Aunt’s usual and customary contribution – she in her younger years worked in the office for Marcus Daley’s Bitterroot Stock Farm – she seemed to have the run of the place and got me connected with the ranch hands which meant I got a saddle horse pretty much at will – if we rode up into the Bitterroot Range I had to stand naked on a white sheet in the bathroom in the evening before dinner to check for ticks – if we rode up into the Sapphire range ticks were not a problem – there we had to watch out for the rattlesnakes, which never seemed to be an issue up in the Bitterroots – oh my goodness, what memories ...

  9. Darrell - I spend several weeks in Colorado every summer - last summer I went out via I-90 for the first time, rather than I-80 - what a treat - hardly any trucks - I intend going out via I-90 again this coming summer - and - this time I'm thinking of swinging by Hamilton - it would be my first time back since 1967 - it's a little scary - I'm afraid of wrecking some fond memories ...

    1. John, they've not only paved but widened Hwy 93; it is now 4 lanes from the river crossing south of Hamilton all the way to Missoula. The Railroad no longer operates this far south - I think it still comes down to Stevensville. But maybe not. Rails and bridges still in place.

      There are no slash burners and as far as I know the Daley Ranch doesn't operate either. The mansion and surrounding land is a museum - and a great place to paint outdoors. Old Farm in a hoity toity closed community of big bucks...

      And we have 5 stoplights on 1st Street (93) and one on Main.

      But deer, elk and raccoons still play in our back yard. No Blackfeet at anyone's door - the renegades around here are the EPA and the BLM! (50 units of cattle - a cow and calf) are considered too much for ten square miles of grazing forest!) But you still better watch out for bears and wolves. It isn't unusual to see a gun on someone's hip in the grocery store either; everyone is very courteous around here.

      Montana is a great place to live. But it ain't Colorado. Colorado was a great place to live.... WAS!

  10. My apologies for hijacking this thread – so – to close this out - - - Hamilton in my past actually led me, some years ago, into a ton of research on the Montana Southern down Big Hole way - with an eye toward doing the MSRy (the Colorado - F&CC connection didn't hurt). But in the end, I was simply unable to escape the Clear Creek Clutches of the C&S. In recent years I’ve sharpened my focus (a necessity with indoor Fn3) down finally to … Silver Plume = (Argentine Central) Shays mingling with B4C’s and B4E’s.