Roper, great building, just the combination I was looking for, but where was it and is there more info available? I have Hydrocal parts from the RM S-scale Machinery Building in Idaho Springs I could salvage for the bottom half.
Actually, Roper, the gon appears to be spotted for ore loading or unloading. The coal bin is at the right end of the building, conveniently at the business end of the stationary boiler.
Can we get a nice blowup of the harness for the wagon? I need to rig one of those!
"Coal car" is the official C&S term for their ng coal cars. Very rarely - if ever - did the ng records refer to their coal cars as gondolas. They carried all kinds of stuff in them, too. Of course the UP might have called them that and the D&RGW did.... (ugh! Tooooooooo many syllables).
Roper, thanks for a detail rich photo. The wagon on the road above the building the people looking out the second story window. The tie profile and spacing in the foreground all beg to be studied and subjects to be modeled. Thanks also for helping me become a better student of these historic photos.
Later View here, Gilpin service to boot. http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/36630/rv/singleitem/rec/1 DPL call # X-60836
Well Robert, I for one have Kelly Bundy Syndrome (KBS). That is where your brain gets full and if you learn something new you must unlearn something you already knew in order to make room...
It is incurable so I have to be careful. Which is exactly why I was so disgusted with the caption on page 144 bottom photo of "South Park's Gunnison Memories & Then Some".
Its the photo of No. 73 about 1910 or '11 (I know this because the engine has the class numbers under the cab number and the pneumatic sanding valves but no electric lights) at Romley. Who ever wrote the caption apparently could not have told you that to save the world!. Instead the caption has all the character of a bowl of mush! The date is vague but still wrong and the obvious is "intellectually" pointed out - snow, people gathered .... but the "Real question" is that barrel laying on the ground in front of the engine! REEEEEEEEALLY? I'm sorry; is this grand "pitcherbook" about the C&S or what kinds of barrels laying around? (Are we coopers or railfans?) I offered to help Tom with captions after the first book. Pardon me if I'm a little disgusted - I have no idea what I had to unlearn in order to "learn" about this all important barrel!
For me, personally, the Mason Bogie, trumps the people on the hill. (And the coal car trumps people leering out the windows too). So I didn't bother with them - even if I did notice them. No offense meant. I'm not knocking looking at details other than the railroad stuff nor can say there isn't interesting things to learn from the things in the background. But, for me, there are some things that just have a command of presents. Are you sorry you asked? Hope not...
Listen guys; I'm not condemning looking for and discussing details in a photo - everything there is history. My opinions are not meant to restrict your discussions whatsoever. My disinterest in some details is just that - MY disinterest.
My beef with Klinger's books is that of motives; it do not appear that accuracy in history meant as much as something else. Frankly they remind me of the Money Changers in the Temple who were taking advantage of and profiting from the people's desire to know more.
Feel free to call me to task! Argue that the books are really about the photos we might not otherwise have. WHY are we expected to settle for less than Truth and yet expected to pay homage to the money changers with gratitude? If sharing the photos was the most important accomplishment then why bother with all the text and words? I argue that the text and words are more about ego than accuracy - most of the captions are mush at best! Why ignore the offers of those who know what they are talking about if this was not about ego? Any number of people could have helped with this.
Tom make Factual Statement that he had no basis to make! Example - on page 173; that the engine coming out of the tunnel does NOT have a Tender!!! WHAT?!! Engines DO NOT run without tenders and in that very photo I CAN see the Tender! On page 189 the C&S engine is identified as #93 when no known roster listed C&Sng engines 77 - 93.
Perhaps if these were the only infractions - it is our duty as historians to be as truthful as possible - maybe they could be over looked. But the entire Set is fraught with errors. Perhaps the photos are worth the price but when these could have been so much more one is sorely disappointed! Please; tell me why anyone should accept this?
Sorry, Tom. I offered my best to you. But even if I did not suit the need then there are others who would have gladly offered their help. I made it know to you that the first book had problems but you did NOTHING about that with the next two volumes! Well, we make choices and then we live with them...
Continuing with the coal/gondola theme... Thanks to both Bob B. and Chris W. for bringing this photo to Roper's attention.
ReplyDeleteRoper, great building, just the combination I was looking for, but where was it and is there more info available? I have Hydrocal parts from the RM S-scale Machinery Building in Idaho Springs I could salvage for the bottom half.
ReplyDeleteIron City/Penn Mill Lower end of Blackhawk more pictures and info in THE GILPIN RAILROAD
ReplyDeleteERA Sundance Book
Robert
Actually, Roper, the gon appears to be spotted for ore loading or unloading. The coal bin is at the right end of the building, conveniently at the business end of the stationary boiler.
ReplyDeleteCan we get a nice blowup of the harness for the wagon? I need to rig one of those!
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
"Coal car" is the official C&S term for their ng coal cars. Very rarely - if ever - did the ng records refer to their coal cars as gondolas. They carried all kinds of stuff in them, too. Of course the UP might have called them that and the D&RGW did.... (ugh! Tooooooooo many syllables).
ReplyDeleteDerrell
Roper, thanks for a detail rich photo. The wagon on the road above the building the people looking out the second story window. The tie profile and spacing in the foreground all beg to be studied and subjects to be modeled. Thanks also for helping me become a better student of these historic photos.
ReplyDeleteLee Gustafson
Later View here, Gilpin service to boot.
ReplyDeletehttp://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/36630/rv/singleitem/rec/1
DPL call # X-60836
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
How come nobody noticed the two guys on the cliff above the Mason Bogie in Roper's last adventure?
ReplyDeleteWell Robert, I for one have Kelly Bundy Syndrome (KBS). That is where your brain gets full and if you learn something new you must unlearn something you already knew in order to make room...
DeleteIt is incurable so I have to be careful. Which is exactly why I was so disgusted with the caption on page 144 bottom photo of "South Park's Gunnison Memories & Then Some".
But that's a personal problem, I guess. Sorry.
Derrell
Well I did notice the half-dozen or more up on the hillside, and to me they appear to be scaling the slope removing loose rocks etc.
DeleteUpSideDownC
in New Zealand
Haven't been able to purchase a copy of the Gunnison book yet.What photo do you refer to?
DeleteIts the photo of No. 73 about 1910 or '11 (I know this because the engine has the class numbers under the cab number and the pneumatic sanding valves but no electric lights) at Romley. Who ever wrote the caption apparently could not have told you that to save the world!. Instead the caption has all the character of a bowl of mush! The date is vague but still wrong and the obvious is "intellectually" pointed out - snow, people gathered .... but the "Real question" is that barrel laying on the ground in front of the engine! REEEEEEEEALLY? I'm sorry; is this grand "pitcherbook" about the C&S or what kinds of barrels laying around? (Are we coopers or railfans?) I offered to help Tom with captions after the first book. Pardon me if I'm a little disgusted - I have no idea what I had to unlearn in order to "learn" about this all important barrel!
DeleteFor me, personally, the Mason Bogie, trumps the people on the hill. (And the coal car trumps people leering out the windows too). So I didn't bother with them - even if I did notice them. No offense meant. I'm not knocking looking at details other than the railroad stuff nor can say there isn't interesting things to learn from the things in the background. But, for me, there are some things that just have a command of presents. Are you sorry you asked? Hope not...
Derrell
Listen guys; I'm not condemning looking for and discussing details in a photo - everything there is history. My opinions are not meant to restrict your discussions whatsoever. My disinterest in some details is just that - MY disinterest.
DeleteMy beef with Klinger's books is that of motives; it do not appear that accuracy in history meant as much as something else. Frankly they remind me of the Money Changers in the Temple who were taking advantage of and profiting from the people's desire to know more.
Feel free to call me to task! Argue that the books are really about the photos we might not otherwise have. WHY are we expected to settle for less than Truth and yet expected to pay homage to the money changers with gratitude? If sharing the photos was the most important accomplishment then why bother with all the text and words? I argue that the text and words are more about ego than accuracy - most of the captions are mush at best! Why ignore the offers of those who know what they are talking about if this was not about ego? Any number of people could have helped with this.
Tom make Factual Statement that he had no basis to make! Example - on page 173; that the engine coming out of the tunnel does NOT have a Tender!!! WHAT?!! Engines DO NOT run without tenders and in that very photo I CAN see the Tender! On page 189 the C&S engine is identified as #93 when no known roster listed C&Sng engines 77 - 93.
Perhaps if these were the only infractions - it is our duty as historians to be as truthful as possible - maybe they could be over looked. But the entire Set is fraught with errors. Perhaps the photos are worth the price but when these could have been so much more one is sorely disappointed! Please; tell me why anyone should accept this?
Sorry, Tom. I offered my best to you. But even if I did not suit the need then there are others who would have gladly offered their help. I made it know to you that the first book had problems but you did NOTHING about that with the next two volumes! Well, we make choices and then we live with them...
I must confess I missed the man standing on the roof and I think I suffer from KBS also!
ReplyDeleteLee Gustafson
My condolences Lee. it's a terrible affliction and seems to be getting worse. Sorta like a root beer float....
Delete